MH <mghembru@eceunix.uwaterloo.ca> trolled:

"We?" What exactly do you do, to help the team?


"Us?" Nobody on the Jays is going to take you anywhere.

cordially, as always,

rm

In article <1156230669.126888.190530@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups. com>,
Quirk <quirk@syntac.net> wrote:

Thanks. I'm not an expert, and I'm sure I'm wrong on several points.. But, I
enjoy a good debate :-)



I honestly can't give a good answer one way or another.

I do think that perhaps the average pitcher was better in the 80s, since
there were less teams. This means less total pitchers, so instead of needing
the top 300 pitcher in the world (some guess) like MLB needs now, you only
need the top 200 pitchers in the world. That means, on average, you're
hitting against the 100th best pitcher, instead of the 150th best pitcher..

League ERA has also gone up significantly. The best hitters are better than
ever. Yet, there are still amazingly good pitchers.

If you look at Roger Clemens putting up a 1.9x ERA last year.. That's simply
phenomenal when the league average ERA is 4.5 or more. Dave Stieb having an
ERA of 2.3 or 2.4 in '84 was great, but if league ERA was 2.9 or 3.1 (I
don't know the exact numbers), it's not THAT much better than average..

A lot of rambling to say: I can't answer this directly, because I don't even
know what I think about it..

MH

bushdoctor48@webtv.net wrote:

You are a wierd one Doc. If you do not feel compelled to answer a
question, just dont, nobodies forcing you. Why do you feel compelled to
make personal attackes, yet again.

This is a forum, asking questions is allowed, figuring out something
akin to a Gini coefficient trend of the last couple of decades for team
payroll is not trivial, and something that somebody may know about, if
you don't fine, I asked hoping somebody know and could simply answer
the questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient


The questions is how much where the teams that allowing all the losses
giving up, and how has does correlate to top payrolls over time.

I am not asking if the top team spend a lot, I am asking if league
payroll diferential explains the difference in win loss ratio then and
now.


Where there a large number of games against teams with far lower
payrolls that gave up those 99 wins?


What was it about the central and west that created this disparity?


I am not throwing stones, you asked in your last response to in the
other thread if I could suggest a guide to posting, I did so.


None the less, I try my best, you are deliberitaly persisting using an
unreadable posting format and launching personal attacks when anybody
comments on it, even when they answer a question you asked about it.


Not google groups. And further, this is just a usenet group, I write my
contributions quickly and intend to continue doing so. I do my best,
but quick messages with no copy editing are going to have mistakes,
further, this is unrelated to you deliberatly persisting with an
undreadable posting format.

Stop being so defensive. Thanks for the information regarding wins and
payrolls.

MH wrote:

You have a manager constantly fighting players. What other team does
that? Then has to give them away. Hillenbrand doesn't look like such an
exception anymore. I know, like everything else, it's not JP's fault.
He's a beacon of class.


I repeat the answer they're on the same pace as last years losing
season and 3 games below .500 since the break.

There were 7 teams in their division and no free lunch. You had to earn
it every night. Nobody was winning 100 games.



It's negative because the guy had played his way to being an asset.
Surely they could have got something for them at the trading deadline.
Without recognizing this was another failed year Riccairdi clung to
faint hope and didn't make a move. 2 Weeks later the Jays are done and
he starts giving guys away.



and that is saying a lot.


It's exactly what you said. I said, and stand by the statement,
Ricciardi's never clearly won a deal. You said, the 10-11, 5.56 era,
Ted Lilly for Kelity .271, was an great example of JP's deal maaking
prowess.


If you traded Halladay and Wells for Jetter you would upgrade SS but
lose the deal. That is for sure.



But Kazmir's 22 and only going to get better and he should have been a
Jay.


Your point was the Jays pitching was average, and they never lead in
any category. The statments flat out wrong. The had consistantly great
pitching.

Luis Leal was 13-8 one year. You'd rather have Towers?


Then why only Gord Ash picks improved? And if JP's AAA geniuses are so
great why are they in last place?

Because he inherted a pretty good farm system he's since raped. He's
got an exceptable payroll and resonable ownership.

Pittsburg, KC and Baltimore all have terrible owners whom have no
desire to win, think they can run the team or have no money. Neither
point is true here.


Walt Jocketty seemed to know. Carpenter had a good strike out/ walk
ratio and kept the ball in the park. He just gave up a lot of hits;
with good D the guy's great. St. Loius picks him up for 300 grand. A Cy
winner for 300 thousand/year! JP could have signed him for half a mill.
Instead he signs a guy with the same record for 55 million buck more
than time what he could have got Carpenter for. There's your genius at
work.


I like the letter j. It's one of my favourites. To some degree you're
right. I don't trust or respect anything this guy does but it wasn't
always like that. When he first showed up I was optimistic. Then after
classless statement, 1 bad deal after another, a horrible depletion of
the farm, an attitude of consistant arrogance and one winning season in
five, I've become a little disillutioned.

And You are the opposite. You claim, "nothing is his fault", "he's done
a great job." "we could win 90 games." and "He hired exceptional minor
league coachesthat really contributed to the teams current success."

Whose fault is it? Katrina, 911 Ernie Whitt's? This years scapegaot.
Figure that one out.

The idea is to win, build a solid team and fill ine the missing pieces.
In 5 years he's had 1 winning season, and when he runs Wells it's not
getting any better. There's also no way in hell they're winning 90
games.

As for the minor league geniuses, AAA Syracuse last place, AA New
Hampshire last place and A Dunidin 2nd last place. Almost a trifecta!
And what does Godfrey do? Give him a contract extention through 2010.

For you, because you're a panglossian optimist, the glass is over
flowing. For me because I'm a realist the glass is bone dry.