Bstros <Bstros.2f643w@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> said:


All but one of Garner's previous teams had less than a .500 winning
percentage, and the Astros' winning percentage has declined every year
Garner's been the manager. Only one Garner team before the Astros made it
over .500 - the first year he had the Brewers they were .568 and finished
second. Since he took over the Astros in mid-2004, winning percentage has
gone from .649 (Jimy Williams was at .500 when he left) and has since
declined every year, to .549 in 2005, to .506 this year.

We got to .506 this year only because the players made a historic run on
the Cards. I'm not saying Garner's a bad manager, he's a good manager,
but he's not the kind of manager we need to rebuild the Astros into
consistent winners not just by averages, but also by winning big games.
We didn't win one World Series game. I think the umps were lousy but
still, not one game.

So anyway, if you go by winning percentage, most of 2006 we were under
..500 and when we finally climbed over .500 it was thanks to an amazing run
on the Cards, and it just wasn't enough.

So I'd go with Girardi & seriously rebuild this team. You'd stick with
Garner and more of the same. Fair enough. You're wrong but I'll support
your right to be wrong, for as long as it takes me to finish this post.


--

Yours truly,

The Lone Weasel

Nothing says longtime Astros fan like wanting to oust a manager who played
for the Astros and got them to the World Series for an ex-Chicago cub.

I think you really have to think twice before hiring someone who butted
heads with management so bad that they were willing to fire the rookie coach
who will is probably the frontrunner to get manager of the year.

"Lee Harrison" <loneweasel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns985274229CDCA057098593867@204.153.244.170. ..

Bullshit. I listened to the Astros on the radio with my brother &
grandparents when they had Dennis Menke & Roger Metzger & Joe Morgan & Bob
Watson & Doug Rader & Jesus Alou et al, and when Leo Durocher was the
manager. Know what their winning percentage was in 1973? They were 82-
80, .506 just like they are now. I love the Astros, punk. I want to see
them do better.

But guess what? They just extended Garner's contract to 2008, fired the
pitching coach, and kept the batting coach...

[begin excerpts]

Astros extend Garner's contract, fire pitching coach
Associated Press

HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros extended manager Phil Garner's contract
through 2008 but fired pitching coach Jim Hickey on Wednesday.

Garner's contract was to expire after next season. The Astros also
retained bullpen coach Mark Bailey, hitting coach Sean Berry, bench coach
Cecil Cooper, first base coach Jose Cruz and third base coach Doug
Mansolino.

....

Houston had the NL's second-lowest ERA (4.08) and tied the New York Mets
for the most shutouts (12). The Astros ranked second in the NL with a 3.51
ERA in 2005 and led the league with the fewest runs and walks allowed.

Hickey had been Houston's pitching coach since Garner became manager.

[end excerpts]

So they FIRED the pitching coach who was pretty successful, the KEPT the
hitting coach.

Our pitching was second-best in the NL. Our team batting average was .255
- DEAD LAST in the National League.

Yeah, you're a big fan David. You apparently support team management that
fires the winners and hangs on to the losers.

I still love the Astros but I wish they had competent management at every
level - and a new owner.

"David" <daveman@houston.rr.com> said:




--

Yours truly,

The Lone Weasel

Je 04 Oct 2006 21:26:13 GMT, The Lone Weasel <loneweasel@yahoo.com>
skribis:


The *second* hitting coach. They fired Gaetti another in July.

But I agree, it sounds goofy.



--
Steven M - spam_no@hal-pc.orgwax.invalid
(remove wax and invalid to reply)

"It should be no surprise that when rich men take control
of the government, they pass laws that are favorable to
themselves. The surprise is that those who are not rich
vote for such people, even though they should know from
bitter experience that the rich will continue to rip off the
rest of us. Perhaps the reason is that rich men are very
clever at covering up what they do." – Andrew Greeley,
novelist and columnist, Chicago Sun-Times, February 18, 2001

The Lone Weasel wrote:

And if you were a real fan of the Astros, you'd know that they the
hitting coach, Sean Berry, was hired in July to replace Gary Gaetti.
So the real question is do you advocate firing a hitting coach who's
only been on the job less than 3 months?

As for Hickey, I think it may be a little harsh, but by his own
admission, he "didn't do much coaching with Roy, Rocket, and Petitte".
Take their ERA away from the team's and it's pitiful. Every reliever,
as well as all of the young starters he used, failed far too many times
during the season.

ML

"Mark Laird" <mel27@cox.net> said:

Like you, I read the previous post.


You bet. Last in the hitting is why we couldn't whip the damn Braves when
we needed to.

Why don't we have an infuriating fan participation chant with associated
monkey motions?


They didn't have much support from hitters. I don't know what Lidge's
problem is but I'd trade him and get 2 or 3 young pitchers and cash.
He'll probably do great somewhere else.


--

Yours truly,

The Lone Weasel

The Lone Weasel wrote:

So it was news to you. I was aware of it back in July.


So do I. You're not going to get that by changing hitting caoches
every 3 months. Berry has not had an adequate opportunity to show
whether he can do the job or not, but we did see a few things the last
half of the year that we didn't see under Gaetti. We saw Taveras
finally begin to drive the ball, and his hits were bunts and weak
ground balls. Ensberg finally started to get his form back, but
definitely has altered his approach...going the other way a lot more.
And what we saw with Luke Scott reminded me a lot of the way Berry
approached his own hitting. He sacrificed power for contact, got his
confidence going, then began to get the power stroke back as well. I
say these things warrant a fair chance for Berry to show he can do the
job.


OMG, that's hilarious. With ERA's like 11.12 (Astacio), 6.04 (Hirsh),
5.89 (Bucholz), and 5.64 (Rodriguez), run support was NOT a factor. If
the Astros had hit for them, they would have lost 7-5 instead of 7-1.
How much of that is Hickey's fault is hard to determine, but the
argument can be made that the only pitchers who had success were the
established vets whom Hickey admittedly "didn't coach". I personally
would have liked to see him stay, but I can see why he was let go as
well.

OTOH, to fire Sean Berry after 10 weeks would be stupid. He deserves
the chance to prove he can do the job.

I don't know what Lidge's

I don't think Lidge is going anywhere. He still has some of the
nastiest stuff in the game, and the Astros are thinking he'll regain
his form next season.

ML

Mark Laird wrote:

So do you what?


Just change hitting coaches every time your team batting average is
dead last in the National League.

Several teams did pretty bad, they were just a few points ahead of us.
But they were ahead, and we were last.


He had half the year and couldn't get the job done. But he stays, and
the pitching coach was fired.

That's why we couldn't catch the Cards. Bad management.


They should trade Ensberg to Round Rock.


Hmm, sounds like something Ted Williams advised in "The Science of
Hitting". Looks like Luke read my earlier post - good for him!


Last in the league says it all.


That's what I said, trade for young talented prospects and let Girardi
and his pitching coach help them along.


We nearly caught the Cards on the final day of the season and it wasn't
because of our booming bats. Clemens got numerous no-decisions or
losses thanks to pitching and hitting failures after he left the game,
same for Oswalt and Petitte.

We need to rebuild instead of fumbling along with mediocre teams.


Worst hitters in the National League - ASTROS!

That really gets my goat.


I think he wants to be traded. Have you asked him? Bet he says "TRADE
ME! PLEASE!"

Just my opinion.

--


Yours truly,

Lee Harrison