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  #41  
Old 10-12-2006, 11:55 AM
GoMavsGo GoMavsGo is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 491
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000
youre clearly an extremist idiot and it's almost pointless for me to tell
you this... because you will never get it...


"theBZA" <dewey3kNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns985A4D173FB17dewey3kNOSPAMgmailco@130.133. 1.4...
Quote:
David Goldberg <david_asbnll@yahoo.com> wrote in news:452DA6A7.710ED9DC@yahoo.com:
Quote:
Uncle Bush's Cabin wrote:
Quote:
Iraqi Death Toll Exceeds 600,000, Study Estimates
If true, this means Bush has finally surpassed Clinton's massive body count in Iraq. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/418625.stm Funny how you libs only started noticing the war when a Republican took over.
"Iraqis blame sanctions for child deaths" and yet here you are calling for similar sanctions on Iran and North Korea. Still waiting for you to cite even one ""half-wit liberal" who "shreik[ed] with glee... that America is losing" the war in Iraq" or at least admit you either made it up or plagiarized it. -- If I were a cactus, I wouldn't need so much water



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  #42  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:20 PM
CoffeehouseSchmuck CoffeehouseSchmuck is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 74
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000
I guess Other presidents should too
remember WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam
Desert Storm

get real man....................if we werent fighting in IRAQ we WOULD be
fighting them in NY CITY instead
There are 2 Sides to very war............If We PULL OUT
They might still want to fight and attack us on OUR SOIL
another 911 would happen
but this time it would be worse...........Imagine if they attck the stadium
holding the Super Bowl
Thats 80,000 in one shot
Dont be an Idot
The opposite of Peace isnt war............you need war to Have peace,the
opposite of peace is oppression

"Uncle Bush's Cabin" <headoverheels@tff.com> wrote in message
news:452d1090$1_1@x-privat.org...
Quote:
Yet some asshole right wingers still want to pretend this war was a caring effort to save Iraqi lives. Bush should be on trial right next to Saddam. Iraqi Death Toll Exceeds 600,000, Study Estimates By NEIL KING JR. October 11, 2006; Page A4 WASHINGTON -- A new study asserts that roughly 600,000 Iraqis have died from violence since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, a figure many times higher than any previous estimate. The study, to be published Saturday in the British medical journal the Lancet, was conducted by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health by sending teams of Iraqi doctors across Iraq from May through July. The findings are sure to draw fire from skeptics and could color the debate over the war ahead of congressional elections next month. The Defense Department until 2004 eschewed any effort to compute the number of Iraqi dead but this summer released a study putting the civilian casualty rate between May and August at 117 people a day. Other tabulations using different methodologies put the range of total civilian fatalities so far from about 50,000 to more than 150,000. President Bush in December said "30,000, more or less" had died in Iraq during the invasion and in the violence since. The Johns Hopkins team conducted its study using a methodology known as "cluster sampling." That involved randomly picking 47 clusters of households for a total 1,849 households, scattered across Iraq. Team members interviewed each household about any deaths in the family during the 40 months since the invasion, as well as in the year before the invasion. The team says it reviewed death certificates for 92% of all deaths reported. Based on those figures, it tabulated national mortality rates for various periods before and after the start of the war. The mortality rate last year was nearly four times the preinvasion rate, the study found. "Since March 2003, an additional 2.5% of Iraq's population has died above what would have occurred without conflict," the report said. The country's population is roughly 24 million people. Human Rights Watch has estimated Saddam Hussein's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years. The Lancet study, funded largely by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Center for International Studies, said while the percentage of deaths attributed to the U.S.-led coalition has decreased over the past year, coalition forces were involved in 31% of all violent deaths since March 2003. Most of the deaths in Iraq, particularly in the past two years, have been caused by insurgent, terrorist and sectarian violence. Overall, the study found 55% of deaths since March 2003 were due to violence. Of that subset, 56% resulted from gunshots; car bombs and other explosives accounted for 27%, and airstrikes caused 13%. The rest were due to other factors. Paul Bolton, a public-health researcher at Boston University who has reviewed the study, called the methodology "excellent" and said it was standard procedure in a wide range of studies he has worked on. "You can't be sure of the exact number, but you can be quite sure that you are in the right ballpark," he said. A similar, smaller study by the same team in 2004 put the number of deaths at the time at 9,000 to 194,000. That report drew fire for the breadth of its estimate. In part to offset such criticism, the researchers said they picked the largest sample possible for this survey, after considering the high level of danger involved in sending teams door-to-door in Iraq. The study's lead researchers, Gilbert Burnham and Les Roberts of Johns Hopkins, have done studies in the Congo, Rwanda and other war zones. "This is a standard methodology that the U.S. government and others have encouraged groups to use in developing countries," said Mr. Burnham, who defended the study as "a scientifically extremely strong paper." This study, "The Human Cost of the War in Iraq," puts civilian fatalities at 426,369 to 793,663 but gives a 95% certainty to the figure of 601,027. Hamit Dardagan, co-founder of Iraq Body Count, a London-based human-rights group, called the Lancet study's figures "pretty shockingly high." His group tabulates the civilian death toll based on media reports augmented by local hospital and morgue records. His group says it has accumulated reports of as many as 48,693 civilian deaths caused by the U.S. intervention. Mr. Burnham said the disparity between his survey and tabulations like Iraq Body Count are largely because of the heavy media and government focus on Baghdad and a few other cities. "What our data show is that the level of violence is going on throughout the country," he said. Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros, a Defense Department spokesman, said the Pentagon doesn't comment on reports that haven't been publicly released. Nonetheless, he said, "the coalition takes enormous precautions to prevent civilian deaths and injuries," adding that "the Iraqi ministry of health would be in a better position, with all of its records, to provide more accurate information on deaths in Iraq." Since 2004, the Pentagon has collected data on civilian deaths in incidents where coalition forces were involved. According to its August civilian-casualty report, those figures show that the daily civilian death rate has increased nearly sixfold, to almost 120 this summer from about 20 in early 2004. The Lancet study cites the Pentagon's numbers to back its own findings, saying the mortality-rate increases in both tabulations closely parallel one another. http://online.wsj.com/public/articl..._ main_tff_top



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  #43  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:26 PM
Dewey Dewey is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,768
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000
"CoffeehouseSchmuck" <CoffeehouseSchmuck@msn.com> wrote in
news:0bsXg.4408$HP.3963@trndny08:
Quote:
I guess Other presidents should too remember WWI WWII Korea Vietnam Desert Storm get real man....................if we werent fighting in IRAQ we WOULD be fighting them in NY CITY instead


talk about needing to get real. Exactly how do you think "they" would
get from Iraq to NYC?
Quote:
There are 2 Sides to very war............If We PULL OUT They might still want to fight and attack us on OUR SOIL another 911 would happen but this time it would be worse...........Imagine if they attck the stadium holding the Super Bowl Thats 80,000 in one shot Dont be an Idot The opposite of Peace isnt war............you need war to Have peace,the opposite of peace is oppression


Your screenname is perhaps the most appropriate I've ever seen.

*PLONK*
--
If I were a cactus, I wouldn't need so much water
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:31 PM
CoffeehouseSchmuck CoffeehouseSchmuck is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 74
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000

"theBZA" <dewey3kNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns985A6A4454F1Edewey3kNOSPAMgmailco@130.133. 1.4...
Quote:
"CoffeehouseSchmuck" <CoffeehouseSchmuck@msn.com> wrote in news:0bsXg.4408$HP.3963@trndny08:
Quote:
I guess Other presidents should too remember WWI WWII Korea Vietnam Desert Storm get real man....................if we werent fighting in IRAQ we WOULD be fighting them in NY CITY instead
talk about needing to get real. Exactly how do you think "they" would get from Iraq to NYC?

fighter jets poopsie,fighter jets

Quote:
There are 2 Sides to very war............If We PULL OUT They might still want to fight and attack us on OUR SOIL another 911 would happen but this time it would be worse...........Imagine if they attck the stadium holding the Super Bowl Thats 80,000 in one shot Dont be an Idot The opposite of Peace isnt war............you need war to Have peace,the opposite of peace is oppression Your screenname is perhaps the most appropriate I've ever seen.


why thank you
Quote:
*PLONK*


*FLUSH*

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
Quote:
-- If I were a cactus, I wouldn't need so much water


If i were a beer i would invite over the newsgroup


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  #45  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:41 PM
Lefty Lefty is offline
Junior Member
  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 77
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000

"CoffeehouseSchmuck" <CoffeehouseSchmuck@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0bsXg.4408$HP.3963@trndny08...
Quote:
I guess Other presidents should too remember WWI WWII Korea Vietnam Desert Storm get real man....................if we werent fighting in IRAQ we WOULD be fighting them in NY CITY instead There are 2 Sides to very war............If We PULL OUT They might still want to fight and attack us on OUR SOIL another 911 would happen but this time it would be worse...........Imagine if they attck the stadium holding the Super Bowl Thats 80,000 in one shot Dont be an Idot The opposite of Peace isnt war............you need war to Have peace,the opposite of peace is oppression


Try not to be an idiot. There were no terrorists in Iraq before we
invaded. Now there are. If you really think car bombs would be going
off in NYC if they weren't in Iraq, you're just irrational.
Quote:
"Uncle Bush's Cabin" <headoverheels@tff.com> wrote in message news:452d1090$1_1@x-privat.org...
Quote:
Yet some asshole right wingers still want to pretend this war was a caring effort to save Iraqi lives. Bush should be on trial right next to Saddam. Iraqi Death Toll Exceeds 600,000, Study Estimates By NEIL KING JR. October 11, 2006; Page A4 WASHINGTON -- A new study asserts that roughly 600,000 Iraqis have died from violence since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, a figure many times higher than any previous estimate. The study, to be published Saturday in the British medical journal the Lancet, was conducted by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health by sending teams of Iraqi doctors across Iraq from May through July. The findings are sure to draw fire from skeptics and could color the debate over the war ahead of congressional elections next month. The Defense Department until 2004 eschewed any effort to compute the number of Iraqi dead but this summer released a study putting the civilian casualty rate between May and August at 117 people a day. Other tabulations using different methodologies put the range of total civilian fatalities so far from about 50,000 to more than 150,000. President Bush in December said "30,000, more or less" had died in Iraq during the invasion and in the violence since. The Johns Hopkins team conducted its study using a methodology known as "cluster sampling." That involved randomly picking 47 clusters of households for a total 1,849 households, scattered across Iraq. Team members interviewed each household about any deaths in the family during the 40 months since the invasion, as well as in the year before the invasion. The team says it reviewed death certificates for 92% of all deaths reported. Based on those figures, it tabulated national mortality rates for various periods before and after the start of the war. The mortality rate last year was nearly four times the preinvasion rate, the study found. "Since March 2003, an additional 2.5% of Iraq's population has died above what would have occurred without conflict," the report said. The country's population is roughly 24 million people. Human Rights Watch has estimated Saddam Hussein's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years. The Lancet study, funded largely by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Center for International Studies, said while the percentage of deaths attributed to the U.S.-led coalition has decreased over the past year, coalition forces were involved in 31% of all violent deaths since March 2003. Most of the deaths in Iraq, particularly in the past two years, have been caused by insurgent, terrorist and sectarian violence. Overall, the study found 55% of deaths since March 2003 were due to violence. Of that subset, 56% resulted from gunshots; car bombs and other explosives accounted for 27%, and airstrikes caused 13%. The rest were due to other factors. Paul Bolton, a public-health researcher at Boston University who has reviewed the study, called the methodology "excellent" and said it was standard procedure in a wide range of studies he has worked on. "You can't be sure of the exact number, but you can be quite sure that you are in the right ballpark," he said. A similar, smaller study by the same team in 2004 put the number of deaths at the time at 9,000 to 194,000. That report drew fire for the breadth of its estimate. In part to offset such criticism, the researchers said they picked the largest sample possible for this survey, after considering the high level of danger involved in sending teams door-to-door in Iraq. The study's lead researchers, Gilbert Burnham and Les Roberts of Johns Hopkins, have done studies in the Congo, Rwanda and other war zones. "This is a standard methodology that the U.S. government and others have encouraged groups to use in developing countries," said Mr. Burnham, who defended the study as "a scientifically extremely strong paper." This study, "The Human Cost of the War in Iraq," puts civilian fatalities at 426,369 to 793,663 but gives a 95% certainty to the figure of 601,027. Hamit Dardagan, co-founder of Iraq Body Count, a London-based human-rights group, called the Lancet study's figures "pretty shockingly high." His group tabulates the civilian death toll based on media reports augmented by local hospital and morgue records. His group says it has accumulated reports of as many as 48,693 civilian deaths caused by the U.S. intervention. Mr. Burnham said the disparity between his survey and tabulations like Iraq Body Count are largely because of the heavy media and government focus on Baghdad and a few other cities. "What our data show is that the level of violence is going on throughout the country," he said. Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros, a Defense Department spokesman, said the Pentagon doesn't comment on reports that haven't been publicly released. Nonetheless, he said, "the coalition takes enormous precautions to prevent civilian deaths and injuries," adding that "the Iraqi ministry of health would be in a better position, with all of its records, to provide more accurate information on deaths in Iraq." Since 2004, the Pentagon has collected data on civilian deaths in incidents where coalition forces were involved. According to its August civilian-casualty report, those figures show that the daily civilian death rate has increased nearly sixfold, to almost 120 this summer from about 20 in early 2004. The Lancet study cites the Pentagon's numbers to back its own findings, saying the mortality-rate increases in both tabulations closely parallel one another. http://online.wsj.com/public/articl..._ main_tff_top



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  #46  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:56 PM
Will Vaughan Will Vaughan is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000

"GoMavsGo" <gomavz@mavvz.com> wrote in message
news:YweXg.4143$e65.579@trnddc05...
Quote:
"Emperor Wonko the Magnificent" <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote in message news:1160586866.753930.108130@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
Quote:
It extrapolated from interviews at 1,800 households? That doesn't come near passing the laugh test. Doug
They visited 1,800 homes and thats how they got their numbers.


And this makes the study invalid? You know nothing of statistics, do you?
Quote:
Ofcourse as most of us know, it is media sensationalism... 600,000 peoplehavent died in this war. Not even 80 thousand have died.




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  #47  
Old 10-12-2006, 03:36 PM
Lefty Lefty is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 77
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000

"GoMavsGo" <gomavz@mavvz.com> wrote in message
news:YweXg.4143$e65.579@trnddc05...
Quote:
"Emperor Wonko the Magnificent" <doug@sorensensdomain.net> wrote in message news:1160586866.753930.108130@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
Quote:
It extrapolated from interviews at 1,800 households? That doesn't come near passing the laugh test. Doug
They visited 1,800 homes and thats how they got their numbers. Ofcourse as most of us know, it is media sensationalism... 600,000 people havent died in this war. Not even 80 thousand have died.



You're a fool.
You oppose a number you pull out of thin air to one arrived at by a
legitimate statistical method.
If you can show us how the cluster samples used were skewed, or how th
statistical extracts contributed to an incorrect result, or even
criticize the assumptions used to get this estimate, you might have a
leg to stand on.


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  #48  
Old 10-12-2006, 03:54 PM
Got Any Gum ? Got Any Gum ? is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,910
Default Iraqi Death Toll at 600,000
Lefty wrote:
Quote:
"CoffeehouseSchmuck" <CoffeehouseSchmuck@msn.com> wrote in message news:0bsXg.4408$HP.3963@trndny08...
Quote:
I guess Other presidents should too remember WWI WWII Korea Vietnam Desert Storm get real man....................if we werent fighting in IRAQ we WOULD be fighting them in NY CITY instead There are 2 Sides to very war............If We PULL OUT They might still want to fight and attack us on OUR SOIL another 911 would happen but this time it would be worse...........Imagine if they attck the stadium holding the Super Bowl Thats 80,000 in one shot Dont be an Idot The opposite of Peace isnt war............you need war to Have peace,the opposite of peace is oppression
Try not to be an idiot. There were no terrorists in Iraq before we invaded. Now there are. If you really think car bombs would be going off in NYC if they weren't in Iraq, you're just irrational.


BUT THERE WERE.............Terrorits in NY CITY
how soon you forgot 911 which was BEFORE we invaded




Quote:
"Uncle Bush's Cabin" <headoverheels@tff.com> wrote in message news:452d1090$1_1@x-privat.org...
Quote:
Yet some asshole right wingers still want to pretend this war was a caring effort to save Iraqi lives. DEMOCRATS should be on trial right next to Saddam. Iraqi Death Toll Exceeds 600,000, Study Estimates


Miniscule compared to WWII
Quote:
Normal BS Rhetoric Snipped

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