Writing vague sports rules and regulations and allowing the referee
to make up the rules as he goes along is recipe for disaster and
invites corruption and bribery of referees into world soccer.

One of the most contentious issues in any sport occurs when
players collide on the field.

This results in judgments by the referee which often are
called into question, such as the World Cup 2006 quarterfinal
Italy-Australia collision between Grosso and Neill which,
with the score 0-0, was called a Penalty,
with literally seconds left to play in the match.
This one call Decided the outcome of this match in Italy's favor.
Without this call, Italy would never have come anywhere near the
World Cup Final and the world of soccer would be much the better for it.

There is simply no detail in the FIFA rule-book on this subject.
Compare this to a sport like Basketball, there is a huge difference in the
determination of the US National Basketball Association (NBA)
to prevent corrupt referees from being able to take bribes
and Fix matches by misconstruing purposely the rules in this area.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_index.html

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/D...506_onepage.pdf

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/0...theGame2006.pdf

John

==================================================
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList

| BLOCK-CHARGE
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive play-er
| once he has started his shooting motion.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving player the distance to stop or change
| direction when the offensive player receives a pass outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player the distance to land and then stop
| or change direction when the offensive player is outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of an offensive player who receives a pass inside the lower defensive box regardless
| of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player who receives a pass the space to
| land when the offensive player is inside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving offensive player without the ball the
| distance to stop or change direction.
|
| The speed of the offensive player will determine the amount of distance a defensive
| player must allow.
|
| If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a
| legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored.
|
| A defensive player may turn slightly to protect himself, but is never allowed to
| bend over and submarine an opponent.
|
| An offensive foul should never be called if the contact is with a secondary
| defensive player who has established a defensive position within a designated
| "restricted area" near the basket for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul.
|
| The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot
| radius measured from the middle of the basket.
|
| EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the
| offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.
|
| The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play,
| does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The offi-cials
| must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each
| situation separately.
================================================== ======

================================================== ======
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1...nav=ArticleList

[more NBA rules details about fouls and holding, impeding here]

================================================== ======

John

Let me get this straight. I accept that it was a contentious penalty, and
that decided the match.

However, your statement "Without this call, Italy would never have come
anywhere near the World Cup Final", is, frankly, garbage. Without that
penalty, the game would have probably gone into extra time, then penalties.
Even if you want to call it a 50/50 call on the outcome of extra time and
penalties, Italy had an even chance of progressing. Given that they are the
better team (I think we'd agree they'd beat Australia 9 times out of 10),
they had a goos chance of progressing.

Anyone who disagrees with this is clearly working for anti-PR companies, and
can therefore be safely ignored.

As for basketball, the infringemnts are entirely at the whim of the
officials. The rule book does not rule out the human element.

Can I finally ask why you cross-post your ill-reasoned, poorly-researched
crap to 6 newsgroups, and then on other occasions refer to "this group"?

I like to play with trolls from time to time, and you are such a poor one
that I've had fun. I know the use of "troll" proves that I work for a PR
company (and that I may well even be the anti-christ), but I could have
sworn that it originated from the popular kiddie story, "The three
Billy-Goats Gruff".

Graybags

"Graybags" <gbas@lineone.net> wrote in message news:4m93gsF54r0mU1@individual.net...

Materazzi was Sent Off by this time because Brescia was going in
for the winning goal and Materazzi gave it up for his team. However Italy's
legs were weakening because of the extra man that Australia had and Italy
would clearly have lost in the overtime or would have missed several
Penalty Kicks on tired legs.
The whole problem with the World Cup Final 2006 is that Italy played for
Penalty Kicks and rested their legs for a full final 60 minutes of the final,
while France searched for the winning goal.
That left Italy with stronger legs in the separate PK Championship.

As I have mentioned, teams with 10 men often save their strength for a
final attack in the 90th minute in a tied game, after which they are
guaranteed a rest.
The problem is when the 10 men are able to add the corrupt Referee
to their team to make 11-plus.


I am certain that if my message was poorly researched, you would not have
deleted the research from the reply and would have put your refutation
of the research into your reply.


Never heard of that story, but the usage of the term "troll" has clearly been
defined and popularized by Public Relations firms.

John

I'm going to need some proof via a YouTube clip.

:--)

--
Neighborhood Superstar,

Devin Tregre
"The mongrel dog who tucks its tail between its legs and runs away from

battle without fighting, shall not bark!" - Haijime Saitoh

"John Shocked" <jshocked@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PmILg.18788$RD.11243@fed1read08...
<snipped>
Try the section on obstruction and indirect freekicks

"Lucky Devin" <devincompetition@aol.com> wrote in message news:1157606456.256054.136460@p79g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...

Anyone posting action video for a public forum like this one
on YouTube where they down-convert the video quality of
the videos you upload to some dreadful lower resolution
lower bit rate version to save themselves 75% of the disk storage
you uploaded,
could not possibly be a soccer fan

John

============================================
Writing vague sports rules and regulations and allowing the referee
to make up the rules as he goes along is recipe for disaster and
invites corruption and bribery of referees into world soccer.

One of the most contentious issues in any sport occurs when
players collide on the field.

This results in judgments by the referee which often are
called into question, such as the World Cup 2006 quarterfinal
Italy-Australia collision between Grosso and Neill which,
with the score 0-0, was called a Penalty,
with literally seconds left to play in the match.
This one call Decided the outcome of this match in Italy's favor.
Without this call, Italy would never have come anywhere near the
World Cup Final and the world of soccer would be much the better for it.

There is simply no detail in the FIFA rule-book on this subject.
Compare this to a sport like Basketball, there is a huge difference in the
determination of the US National Basketball Association (NBA)
to prevent corrupt referees from being able to take bribes
and Fix matches by misconstruing purposely the rules in this area.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_index.html

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/D...506_onepage.pdf

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/0...theGame2006.pdf

John

==================================================
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList

| BLOCK-CHARGE
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive play-er
| once he has started his shooting motion.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving player the distance to stop or change
| direction when the offensive player receives a pass outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player the distance to land and then stop
| or change direction when the offensive player is outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of an offensive player who receives a pass inside the lower defensive box regardless
| of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player who receives a pass the space to
| land when the offensive player is inside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving offensive player without the ball the
| distance to stop or change direction.
|
| The speed of the offensive player will determine the amount of distance a defensive
| player must allow.
|
| If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a
| legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored.
|
| A defensive player may turn slightly to protect himself, but is never allowed to
| bend over and submarine an opponent.
|
| An offensive foul should never be called if the contact is with a secondary
| defensive player who has established a defensive position within a designated
| "restricted area" near the basket for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul.
|
| The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot
| radius measured from the middle of the basket.
|
| EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the
| offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.
|
| The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play,
| does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The offi-cials
| must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each
| situation separately.
================================================== ======

================================================== ======
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1...nav=ArticleList

[more NBA rules details about fouls and holding, impeding here]

================================================== ======

John

"Sumisdad" <sumisdadNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:44ffb027_2@x-privat.org...

Which section is that and where is he URL for it ?

John

============================================
Writing vague sports rules and regulations and allowing the referee
to make up the rules as he goes along is recipe for disaster and
invites corruption and bribery of referees into world soccer.

One of the most contentious issues in any sport occurs when
players collide on the field.

This results in judgments by the referee which often are
called into question, such as the World Cup 2006 quarterfinal
Italy-Australia collision between Grosso and Neill which,
with the score 0-0, was called a Penalty,
with literally seconds left to play in the match.
This one call Decided the outcome of this match in Italy's favor.
Without this call, Italy would never have come anywhere near the
World Cup Final and the world of soccer would be much the better for it.

There is simply no detail in the FIFA rule-book on this subject.
Compare this to a sport like Basketball, there is a huge difference in the
determination of the US National Basketball Association (NBA)
to prevent corrupt referees from being able to take bribes
and Fix matches by misconstruing purposely the rules in this area.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_index.html

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/D...506_onepage.pdf

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/0...theGame2006.pdf

John

==================================================
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c...nav=ArticleList

| BLOCK-CHARGE
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive play-er
| once he has started his shooting motion.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving player the distance to stop or change
| direction when the offensive player receives a pass outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player the distance to land and then stop
| or change direction when the offensive player is outside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path
| of an offensive player who receives a pass inside the lower defensive box regardless
| of his speed and distance.
|
| A defensive player must allow an alighted player who receives a pass the space to
| land when the offensive player is inside the lower defensive box.
|
| A defensive player must allow a moving offensive player without the ball the
| distance to stop or change direction.
|
| The speed of the offensive player will determine the amount of distance a defensive
| player must allow.
|
| If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a
| legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored.
|
| A defensive player may turn slightly to protect himself, but is never allowed to
| bend over and submarine an opponent.
|
| An offensive foul should never be called if the contact is with a secondary
| defensive player who has established a defensive position within a designated
| "restricted area" near the basket for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul.
|
| The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot
| radius measured from the middle of the basket.
|
| EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the
| offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.
|
| The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play,
| does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The offi-cials
| must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each
| situation separately.
================================================== ======

================================================== ======
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1...nav=ArticleList

[more NBA rules details about fouls and holding, impeding here]

================================================== ======

John

Anyone who thinks that football is utterly predictable "Italy
would clearly have lost in the overtime or would have missed several
Penalty Kicks on tired legs." is very clearly not someone who follows or
understands football.

Graybags

"Graybags" <gbas@lineone.net> wrote in message news:4m9usdF54djdU1@individual.net...

That is consistently the result we have seen when teams had players Sent Off
and survived through to Penalty Kicks:

1) the soccer of the match is ruined and it is converted into a defensive struggle
to reach overtime, for the 10 man team, ruining the spectator sport of the event,

2) usually the team with 10 men lose anyway, as England has done in
several World Cups in which this corruption has occurred.

John

=============================================
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwIL4Bs5dgE

I am interested to hear how such a mild tap on the as Beckham gave
to Simeone could result in a Red Card.
Watching this in the US, which at the time was not seeing a lot
of world soccer, I was amazed that the UK press did not
attack this referee for ruining this match unnecessarily.

Maybe a yellow, if the Referee is determined to make a point.
And if this is really normal in the World soccer theater,
then it has to be a Red Card With Substitution.
This sort of wreckage of the Sport of an major soccer match
by reducing one of the teams to 10 men on what here must be some
kind of technicality, must be eradicated from the sport.

One would have expected the world press to have descended on
this Referee and Beckham, to ferret out whether this scenario
to have Beckham sent off was planned, based on both the Referee
and Beckham being under the control of Organized Crime Gambling
division elements.
How many people can even name this referee right now.

Allowing a Referee to commit a Sent Off Without Substitution
in mild situations like this and punish a team by reducing them to 10 men
invites bribery corruption into world soccer from Organized Crime
Gambling interests.
Eradicating this threat to the sport by forcing the referee to at least
commit a Sent Off With Substitution should protect the sport
from bribes and mockeries of soccer as this match became,
10 men to 11.

John

"John Shocked" <jshocked@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aQPLg.18817$RD.16001@fed1read08...

You're argiung two different points (at least). Yes, when a player is sent
off, the spectacle CAN be ruined (but certainly isn't always - I give you
Liverpool v Everton last year, and about 20 Arsenal games since Wenger took
over). However, the rules are there - you break them and lose a player -
that's not the rules' fault, it's that player's fault. I'd rather see a red
card than the sort of brawls that you get in baseball or ice hockey.

Football doesn't have overtime, it has extra-time, but only in SOME
knock-out tournaments.




2 = several?

Graybags