Consider this the long-delayed sequel to the "Scrubs You Love" thread of
a couple years back . . .

I found myself lost in basketball-reference.com, pondering the Alton
Listers of the universe, when I came across the name of one of my
all-time favorite players: Lionel Simmons. He was a bubble-type lottery
pick but came into the NBA with just about everything a small forward
needs but a three point shot. He could drive, rebound, pass . . . a bit
like Bernard King, in a way, when Bernard King was still Bernard King.
Like Bernard King, Simmons blew out his knee and was never the same
player (never even a starter). His similarity scores by age are utterly
horrifying:

Age Most Similar Player
--- --------------------------------------
22 Vince Carter (926) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
23 Willie Anderson (931) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
24 Steve Smith (939) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
25 Jamal Mashburn (938) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
26 Brian Scalabrine (939) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


I mean, holy hell, to go from being a Vince Carter at 22 to a Brian
Scalabrine at 26... A man's just got to shake his head at that. It's
like watching a film loop of a guy getting kicked in the scrotum for
hours and hours and hours on end.

So I was thinking -- who's your guy? Who's the guy that if he hadn't
gotten messed up on drugs, blew out a knee or wound up being the subject
of a bidding war by Jerry Krause (which always destroyed people, I will
one day urinate on the man but I have to admit that he had some powerful
mojo for people who turned down his money) -- would have been a
superstar?

It's early September, basketball isn't here yet, fantasy leagues haven't
started, I'm bored, so I put together a team.



PG: Fat Lever. One of my all-time favorite players. Fat was pretty much
at his peak when he went down -- he was 30, so he was hardly going to
get better -- but he was just an awesome cult figure of a player, like a
non-obnoxious Stevie Franchise. Doug Moe had like 12 players on the
Nuggets averaging in double-figures and the media had to make one of
them a star, and they always picked Alex English, for some reason. Fat,
though, was the shit. He damn near averaged a triple-double every single
season. He was kind of like Larry Hughes on defense -- not really a shut
down defender, but since Doug Moe didn't give a crap about defense, he
just gambled for steals and got 2 and a half to 3 a game.

But Moe giveth, and Mo taketh away. The Mavericks gave up a couple of
first round picks for him, and Fat went down the first week of the next
season. He did the Bernard King thing but he wasn't the same after that.


SG: Reggie Lewis. It's not because I faced the taunts of my cruel peers
for the huge-ass tongue on my Reverse Jam shoes that I say Reggie
doesn't even really belong on this team. I think it was the '92 playoffs
where he almost singlehandedly carried the Celtics into the semis. It's
amazing to look back and see that team with 50 wins, but watching Reggie
throw in something like 30 a game in the post-season was awesome. Reggie
could have gotten better, but he was already a star, in my eyes, after
that.

The thing I didn't really notice or appreciate at the time was how
little he turned the ball over. It's pretty amazing to be the #1 option
on a team and never commit more than 1.9 turnovers a game in a season.


C: This is a hard one. Center's like quarterback: you either overachieve
as a journeyman, suck, or are a star. I guess if you were to take a drug
case, it'd be Roy Tarpley. He wasn't the biggest guy in the paint but he
was a total beast and I loved watching him play. It was one of the cool
human interest stories in the NBA when he came back at the age of 30 and
was doing it all over again, but we know how that turned out. Again,
watching him in the playoffs when the Mavs took the Lakers to 7 games in
the conference finals, there wasn't much doubt about what he could do.
Granted, Kareem was ancient by that point but it's another story to
abuse him like I remember Tarpley doing.


PF: Lionel Simmons. He wasn't a power forward but I can't think of one,
and I have to give the SF slot to...


SF: Jay Vincent. Holy crap, if I could go back in time and make wagers
over what a bust this guy turned into, I wallpaper my house in foreign
currency. Other kids had to mention Benoit Benjamin as the inexplicable
bust that kept holding on; I was hip, though, I had to mention Jay
Vincent. Unlike Benoit, who could have been great but was merely
mediocre, Jay *was* actually great at one point. His rookie season was
spectacular, especially considering he was a 2nd round pick (although
with expansion he'd be a first-rounder today). But it was all downhill
from there, and I don't think I ever heard why. I know he was even
teamed back up with Magic at one point, and it still didn't do him any
good.

ok its way to early to be putting this much work on my memory center.....


i think my spurs bias will show here.

PG. lloyd daniels. playground player brought in to the spurs by jerry
tarkanian to be the tall PG of the future. ended up starting as a
rookie, played decently. when tark's tenure as coach ended, so did the
experiment for the most part. for the next year and a half he came off
the bench sparringly in SA, and then bounced around the minor leagues
and europe, and a few more stops in the NBA, but failed to ever match
his pedesestrian rookie numbers.

SG. isiah rider. kid had all kinda hops, and was an offensive
powerhouse. but the boy is a headcase, and ineviteabley ended up in
headcase central, oregon, playing for the blazers. his head-casieness
continued, and he faded into the answer of a trivia pursuit question.

SF: willie anderson. was arguably the best all around player on
several spurs teams that featured david robinson. he could do it all,
and play the 3 "small" positions. he had it all...court vision, ball
handling skills, solid passer, good range on his shout (but he ALWAYS
seemed to have a toe on the 3 pt line when he shot). but then he
started having problems with his legs, and problems keeping his pants
up. and last i read, he owes crazy child support money to multiple women.

PF: antonio mcdyess. most people reading this should be quite familiar
with this guy. a complete athletic freak when he came into the league,
but a recurring injury kept him off the floor for what amounted to
several seasons. still an effective player, but nowhere near the force
he was.

C: ewe blab. ok, now real story here, i just cant think of a center,
and im curious how many people even know who he is.

dwayne schitzius was just too obvious of a choice here

lee

In alt.sports.basketball.nba.tor-raptors on Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:58:20 GMT
Granville Waiters' Ghost wrote:


Oliver Miller: Gorgeous touch around the hoop, better defender than he was
ever given credit for, a three-time Raptor. Lost out on the battle of the
Big Mac -- or, rather, lost out on the battle to look like what a coach
thinks a baller should look like.
http://basketball-reference.com/pla.../milleol01.html

Gus Williams: Not a scrub, obviously, but never given the credit he was due.
Only two All-Star selections does not convey the effectiveness of one of the
exciting players evar.
http://basketball-reference.com/pla.../willigu01.html

Reggie Slater: Not really an effective player out on the court, even for a
scrub, but gained my respect by sporting a look that crossed history
professor with pimp. A better "Saved By The Bell" character than baller.
http://basketball-reference.com/pla.../slatere01.html

In article <edpabb$2ar$1@news.tamu.edu>,
Lee Watkins <lrwiii@nospam.juno.com> wrote:



Inspired choice. One of the only players, I've got to believe, that
suited up in an NBA uniform with a bullet still lodged in his body. Tark
recruited him for UNLV (or maybe he was with that Cal surf school before
UNLV), but Sweet Pea got into an altercation at a crackhouse and never
wound up playing.




Holy crap, I didn't know that. I remember he was a member of the '88
Bronze Olympic team that sent USA Basketball into a tizzy (the first
time) and really the only one that had a decent rookie year after
Manning went down with an injury.




Holy crap x 2. I just mentioned Uwe Blab in a post in the Golden State
group yesterday. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, LEE WATKINS.

Kenny "Sky" Walker comes to mind. I always thought of him as a mere
leaper but I was watching some old games recently and saw a midrange
game, D, and overall court sense that make me think he would have been
one heck of a player had he not blown out his knee. He was one of those
players that could singlehandedly take over a game when asked to even
though he was happier as a role player. He didn't quite reach the
heights of some on the Ghost's team but was well on his way IMO.

On that note... future candidate for this team:

Amare Stoudemire

Capn'O wrote:

Sean (Shawn?) Kemp - big, strong, reasonably quick - apparently
attempting a comeback.

Off the top of my head, I'd have to say the obvious guy that's missing
is Penny Hardaway. This guy was legitimately in the discussion for the
best player in the league at one point, and now he can't even start on
the worst team in the league.

Another guy is Drazen Petrovic. He was a one dimensional shooter, but
he was way better at it than today's gunners. Imagine if Gordon hit
50% from the field...

In the most obscure category, I'll throw out Marc Jackson. His rookie
year with the Warriors, he looked like he was going to be a 20/10 guy,
but it turned out it was all downhill from there.

Granville Waiters' Ghost wrote:

thanks!


THATS what it was. i remember there was something checkered in his
past, but i couldnt get the details in my head.




ok maybe im misremembering. looks like maybe it was only one
woman...and the incident ironically enough happened when he was a knick.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...0C0A9609582 60



no way man! ewe blab is my happy childhood memory! ive been a fan of
his ever since i pulled his rookie card out of a 2 year old pack of
skybox cards i got on clearance at wal mart all those years ago!!!

(never actually seen him play though....)

lee

David wrote:

reasonably quick? kemp was another athletic freak of nature! 6 foot
10, ran the court incredibly well, springs for knees. i saw an
interview, i dont remember if it was kemp, or george karl, but they said
that when shawn first came into the league, they had to teach him to
slow down, because he just wasnt effective going 100mph and out of
control.
kemp and payton...i thougth that combo would win at least 2 or 3 titles
in their time.
a contract squabble (at a time when by CBA rules it was impossible to
give him a new contract) caused him to be shipped out to
cleveland...where a combination of the strike, coke, and krispy kreme
bloated him up to the point where he couldnt even dunk any more.

he never looked quite right in cleveland blue anyways...

lee

ImLittleJon wrote:

dang, very good list indeed!


lee