Let me get this correct. All the stats you've been quoting about how good a
trade it was?

LoDuca is kicking ass batting over 300 this year AND just kicked our ass.
Mota seems to be doing pretty well as a Met AND just kicked our ass.

Penny, great pitcher but fell apart.

Choi, isn't with us.

The other guy isn't with us.

The minor leaguer? Who was that and where is he?

Tell me again we got a good deal?

--
"Despair begins with the division of the will." Kierkegaard

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 20:27:58 -0700, "Triple" <rhager4@comcast.net>
wrote:


And isn't as good a player now as Martin. Or David Ross, for that
matter, who was intended to replace Lo Duca but didn't play well down
the stretch, but was a key reason the Reds were in contention for most
of 2006.

For what it's worth - as bad as Ross was for the Dodgers after the
trade - except for the first two weeks after the trade, Lo Duca was
actually worse for the Marlins that season.


Mota sucked for two years after the trade. Big time. He was dumped by
the Marlins, by the Red Sox, and by the Indians, before rebounding
late this season with the Mets. Pitching the way he was (which
started BEFORE the trade) he wouldn't be a Dodger now regardless.
Don't confuse a good performance in one game for being a worthwhile
player for the past two years.


Yeah, Tracy decided to play a weak hitting catcher at first instead of
him, even though Choi was hitting decently (albeit streakily) then he
got hurt.


He was a key part of the trade for Finley(the Dbacks had apparently
asked for him - the sole reason the Dodgers traded for him) - Finley's
performance was an important part of the Dodgers' winning the West in
2004. The rumor was that if the Dodgers didn't get him, the Dbacks
were demanding Billingsley instead - without whom the Dodgers don't
make the playoffs this year. Since if the Dodgers didn't get him the
DBacks would almost certainly have dealt him to the Padres - and the
Dodgers barely beat out the Padres that year (and their huge hole was
in centerfield) it's reasonable to believe that the Dodgers don't win
the division in 2004 without trading for Finley. Are you saying that
you wished the Dodgers traded Billingsley instead of several players
who wouldn't be with the team now anyway?

Penny's performance this season was an important part of the Dodgers
making the playoffs this year. Without him they would have been too
far out of it by the ASG.

It is likely that the Dodgers don't make the playoffs in 2004 or 2006
without the trade. They barely made it in 2004 - since Lo Duca sucked
down the stretch, and Finley's performance helped the team
tremendously, I think it's reasonable to say that the trade made a
difference that year. This year there is no doubt - without the
trade, no playoff appearance. Instead, Lo Duca would have been gone
in free agency, Mota would have been dumped after his prolonged period
of sucking, no Penny, likely no Billingsley.


Yes, we did. It would have been better if Penny wasn't hurt shortly
after the trade, but even with that, the Dodgers have two playoff
appearances they wouldn't have had without the trade.

"Ima Pseudonym" <akrasian@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message > Penny's
performance this season was an important part of the Dodgers

You are right. He was a real ace for a good part of the season. It's just
too bad he can't sustain it. Unlikely they would have been swept if
he still had it together.

I'm still baffled by the amazing young talent on this team.
If they don't piss it away this team will be a contender for years
to come.

Looking forward to 2007

Yup but worse since? Unlikely. Martin is great, no doubt. But Martin wasn't
in the chute. It was Navarro and Ross. You can't say it was a good trade
because we were lucky enough to have Martin now.


That would be a mistake. However, from what was beign said today, it wasn't
a one game showing for the Mets.


And where is Choi now? Doing what? .250/15 HRs. Not excalty stellar. Had
Tracy played him, would he be a Dodger today?


I'll give you that.

The rumor was that if the Dodgers didn't get him, the Dbacks

Since they tied in their division, the same could be said of anyone that
contributed slightly more than the hurt us.

Since if the Dodgers didn't get him the

But Billingsley was barely functional at times this year. He'd have done the
Padres no good that year.


Again, they were in first place the day of the trade with NO CHANCE of
getting past the 1st round of the playoffs. Which is exactly where we were
after the trade. No improvement at all. If I recall, the guy that replaced
LoDuca that year sucked eggs. This means the catching spot was not in the
equation offensively.

In any case, years later, we are in exactly the same position. Able to get
to the playoffs with no chance of getting past the first round. Results
speak for themselves. A zero improvement is performance is a zero
improvement in performance.

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 21:17:52 -0700, "Triple" <rhager4@comcast.net>
wrote:


Umm, those who followed the Dodgers' minors knew Martin was on the
way.

Lo Duca wouldn't have made a difference in 2005 - too many other
things went wrong. His presence (if the Dodgers had resigned him,
which is doubtful) would have hurt the team this season.


Yeah, he's been good for about a month. He sucked for the Marlins
down the stretch in 2004 - he and Lo Duca were the main reasons they
fell out of the wild card chase that year. He sucked in 2005. He
sucked for the Indians this year. How long do you think the Dodgers
would have stuck with him?


Probably not - Colletti has made sure to dump DePodesta obtained
players whenever practical. Of course, as I made clear - the trades
could be easily justified without him.


Umm, for those who paid attention - Billingsley was quite good in July
and August. AND he will likely be an important player for the Dodgers
for years to come.


No, Finley was the player the Padres were after. They had a hole in
centerfield, and Finley was the only CF being marketed that trade
deadline. If the Dodgers didn't meet the Dbacks demands, Finley would
have been a Padre, and the Padres would likely have won the division
instead of the Dodgers.


Umm, which I mentioned. Ross hit horrible (although he was a star
this year for the Reds). However, except for the first week and a
half after the trade, Lo Duca actually hit worse than Ross.


If you read my post, you'd realize I'm arguing that without the trade
the Dodgers likely don't even make the playoffs in 2004 and 2006. So
there WAS an improvement in performance, over what likely would have
been the case.

Oh, and since it's unlikely any of the players the Dodgers traded
would still be with the team anyway, the Dodgers are also better off
for 2007 thanks to the trade - especially if you think that the
Dodgers would have given in and traded Billingsley as part of the
Finley trade.

Triple wrote:

Mota was the only part of the trade that made me wince but he never
quite turned into the pitcher I thought he would be.


The price for young No.1 pitchers is always high. If he was healthy
could have been a different series.

Choi was always a bunch of hype with little truth to it